<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style></style></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1>Hi Colleagues,<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>This is a stimulating and important discussion, perhaps a welcome debate? <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>The description by Seda Guerses of events in Turkey is helpful, as it is always better to have information from the source of the events, especially for those for us who trade in theory. My observation and interpretation of the developments there are that they fit what should be expected in the Internet / postmodern era: many voices, massive fragmentation of information flows, irrational initiatives and responses to physical and material issues. This all makes for a complex set of concerns with possibilities for new political formations, which are currently open ended. This is a helpful perspective suggested by Seda’s description. The possibility for otherwise unlikely alliances will require new ways of conceiving political action within the unfolding demos. The popular front in France pre and post WW2, although deeply compromised, could be referenced here as a model (sans compromise) for how to think about the uprisings. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood cannot be underestimated or rejected, just as Hezbollah and their allies cannot be considered irrelevant. The challenge for political theory in this situation is to reimagine ourselves outside western European / American organisations and new institutional arrangements. This takes a huge amount of mental energy, as I suggested in Uprising: The Internet’s Unintended Consequences (2011). There are emerging organizational formations deeply impacted by networked communications which may have little or no resemblance to the prevailing hegemonic western democratic system of government. (I will send a complimentary e-copy of the book to anyone who asks).<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I want to add a couple of critical points: <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>I believe Jakob overstates the digital media in claiming that it determines the form of the organization. It is an ancillary tool that must be understood within the complex of social, cultural and economic forces, not as the privileged force. Having said that, as scholars of digital life, it is important for us to recognize the way communication now operates. In some cases it primarily operates as an extension of consumer culture – USA, Western Europe, Australia and other places – and is implicated in pending species extinction. In other cases it is central to life – such as in young adults always on line, achieving little in terms of traditional pedagogy, critical thinking and creativity. These kids are participating in the machine with little consciousness. I take observations of my own children as an empirical foundation for this assertion. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Andrew’s wonderful work on Paris 1968 is about a historical conjuncture that pre-figures the Internet and networked communication. (As he noted in a more recent comment to this list – thanks Andrew). Perhaps the more important lesson from Paris is to learn how to organize materially and physically, with all the media available, while realizing that the real action takes place through human agency at sites of action. With Bastille Day next week, we should be mindful that it is the action on the streets that attracts attention and brings change, not Facebook, Twitter and media use alone. It is in the manifestations of pain and suffering of the people that the struggle is mobilised. Everything else may be hot air – and with global warming that phrase has more meaning than it once connoted in Anglo culture, that is, it used to mean too much talking. <o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>For those of you who are not aware of it, Jodi Dean has commentary and links about Turkey and social movements. <a href="http://jdeanicite.typepad.com/">http://jdeanicite.typepad.com/</a><o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>My blog is at http://breencomments.blogspot.com.au/<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p><div>Kind regards,<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Marcus<o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p>Marcus Breen PhD<o:p></o:p>Professor<o:p></o:p>Communication and Creative Media<o:p></o:p>Faculty of Humanities and Social Sciences<o:p></o:p><img border=0 width=128 height=60 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01CE7D4E.81E98910" alt="Description: logo"><o:p></o:p>Telephone: +61 7 5595 5035 <o:p></o:p>Mobile:: +61 (0) 4 0005 5316 Facsimile: +61 7 5595 2545<o:p></o:p>Email: <a href="mailto:mbreen@bond.edu.au">mbreen@bond.edu.au</a> <a href="http://www.bond.edu.au/index.html">Bond University</a> | Gold Coast, Queensland, 4229, Australia<o:p></o:p>CRICOS Provider Code: 00017B <img border=0 width=276 height=15 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.jpg@01CE7D4E.81E98910" alt="Description: goldbar"><o:p></o:p><o:p> </o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>From: discussion-bounces@lists.icts-and-society.net [mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.icts-and-society.net] On Behalf Of Jakob Rigi Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2013 5:16 AM To: feenberg@sfu.ca; christian.fuchs@uti.at Cc: discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net Subject: Re: [ICTs-and-Society] statement of alternative informatics about gezi park and social media<o:p></o:p></div></div><o:p> </o:p><div>Two things.<o:p></o:p></div><div>1- means of communication determine the form of organization. So do not underestimate the role of net, twitter, and Facebook. They have introduced a new means of organisation, that is the logic on networking, to the urban protests. <o:p></o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div>In the time of revolution means of communication are more vital than guns. The first places the revolutionary need to capture are news papers offices, television networks stations, and internet infrastructure.<o:p></o:p></div><div>2- I am not quite sure about the class composition of protesters in Turkey. But I know at least a few very radical participants , and major leftists organizations and worker unions took part in and supported the protests. It was an urban protest triggered for protecting city a commons. I think D. Harvey`s Rebel Cities gives a relatively good description of urban movements. They can become truly anti-capitalist and revolutionary, depending on who takes the lead. What about the recent urban protest in Brazil. <o:p></o:p></div><o:p> </o:p><div>Jakob >>> Andrew Feenberg <<a href="mailto:feenberg@sfu.ca">feenberg@sfu.ca</a>> 07/09/13 7:26 PM >>> The May Events involved the most radical social movement and the most developed student-worker alliance in a developed country in the post-war period. Matze's claims seem to me based on his criticism of contemporary movements rather than on historical reality. I am attaching a leaflet, one of hundreds, that testifies to that reality. I urge anyone actually curious about this history to study it rather than interpreting it as a contemporary movement, which it definitely was not. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Fuchs" <christian.fuchs@uti.at> To: discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:40:45 PM Subject: Re: [ICTs-and-Society] statement of alternative informatics about gezi park and social media Hi list, Just want to say that it is good to see some discussion going on again... Best, Christian On 09/07/2013 15:02, Matze Schmidt wrote: > _contemporary struggle [not =] historical struggle_: true, but these > situations and intensifications have patterns related to the general > social constitution(s) and if one wants to learn from history (e.g. > Hegel's rejection of learning from history has its meta-meaning in > learning from the im-possibility of this approach) one can see > parallels. The petit bourgeois and pseudo self-(un)employed rebellion > called democratic movement in Turkey has its compounds, its "social > groups". Instead of a hassle with media and its role these compounds, > namely humans in relationships and social connections, will decide. The > idea of media as media and a discourse of means as such will only lead > to a closed up systemtheory-discourse. When one denies production of > economical thoughts it ends in media-theory ;) > >> I do not think you know what happened. It was >> not like any contemporary struggle. > >>> We have a comparable situation in Turkey (as perhaps always): Here _the_ >>> students as protesters cleaning streets, there ... . > > > _______________________________________________ > Discussion mailing list > <a href="mailto:Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net">Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net</a> > <a href="http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net">http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net</a> > _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net">Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net</a> <a href="http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net">http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net</a> -- ______________________________ New Book: (Re)Inventing the Internet Preview at: google feenberg sense reinventing Andrew Feenberg Canada Research Chair in Philosophy of Technology School of Communication Simon Fraser University at Harbour Centre ACT, Room 3598 515 West Hastings Street Vancouver, British Columbia, V6B 5K3 Canada Office: 778-782-5169 Mobile: 604-218-6047 In Paris: 06 06 43 32 56 <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf">http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf</a> <o:p></o:p></div></div></body></html>