<html><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><META name="Author" content="Novell GroupWise WebAccess"></head><body style='font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; '><div>Two things.</div><div>1- means of communication determine the form of organization. So do not underestimate the role of net, twitter, and Facebook. They have introduced a new means of organisation, that is the logic on networking, to the urban protests. </div> <div>In the time of revolution means of communication are more vital than guns. The first places the revolutionary need to capture are news papers offices, television networks stations, and internet infrastructure.</div><div>2- I am not quite sure about the class composition of protesters in Turkey. But I know at least a few very radical participants , and major leftists organizations and worker unions took part in and supported the protests. It was an urban protest triggered for protecting city a commons. I think D. Harvey`s Rebel Cities gives a relatively good description of urban movements. They can become truly anti-capitalist and revolutionary, depending on who takes the lead. What about the recent urban protest in Brazil. </div> <div>Jakob >>> Andrew Feenberg <feenberg@sfu.ca> 07/09/13 7:26 PM >>> The May Events involved the most radical social movement and the most developed student-worker alliance in a developed country in the post-war period. Matze's claims seem to me based on his criticism of contemporary movements rather than on historical reality. I am attaching a leaflet, one of hundreds, that testifies to that reality. I urge anyone actually curious about this history to study it rather than interpreting it as a contemporary movement, which it definitely was not. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christian Fuchs" <christian.fuchs@uti.at> To: discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:40:45 PM Subject: Re: [ICTs-and-Society] statement of alternative informatics about gezi park and social media Hi list, Just want to say that it is good to see some discussion going on again... Best, Christian On 09/07/2013 15:02, Matze Schmidt wrote: > _contemporary struggle [not =] historical struggle_: true, but these > situations and intensifications have patterns related to the general > social constitution(s) and if one wants to learn from history (e.g. > Hegel's rejection of learning from history has its meta-meaning in > learning from the im-possibility of this approach) one can see > parallels. The petit bourgeois and pseudo self-(un)employed rebellion > called democratic movement in Turkey has its compounds, its "social > groups". Instead of a hassle with media and its role these compounds, > namely humans in relationships and social connections, will decide. The > idea of media as media and a discourse of means as such will only lead > to a closed up systemtheory-discourse. When one denies production of > economical thoughts it ends in media-theory ;) > >> I do not think you know what happened. It was >> not like any contemporary struggle. > >>> We have a comparable situation in Turkey (as perhaps always): Here _the_ >>> students as protesters cleaning streets, there ... . > > > _______________________________________________ > Discussion mailing list > Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net > http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net > _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net -- ______________________________ New Book: (Re)Inventing the Internet Preview at: google feenberg sense reinventing Andrew Feenberg Canada Research Chair in Philosophy of Technology School of Communication Simon Fraser University at Harbour Centre ACT, Room 3598 515 West Hastings Street Vancouver, British Columbia, V6B 5K3 Canada Office: 778-782-5169 Mobile: 604-218-6047 In Paris: 06 06 43 32 56 http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf </div></body></html>