<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"> <style></style> </head> <body lang="NL" link="blue" vlink="purple"> <div class="WordSection1"> Dear all,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> I also enjoy this discussion; I think that a discussion about metaphors can really contribute to even higher quality thinking here.<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> With regard to the aliens metaphor, there may be at least the following significant difference: the aliens do not pretend to serve the needs of the humans, whereas the data miners do not only use the data for commercial gain but also pretend that they do it to serve the needs of consumers. This renders the meaning question more complex. (and the ethical question too, of course)<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> The comment on Minitel raises the question if social media and other communication services can and should be free. Some would say: there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Others would contest this. Another, related issue: is internet moving towards – and should it move towards – a kind of gift economy? In what sense does uploading amount to a ‘gift’? Are gift economies morally superior to the kind of economy we have haven now?<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Best,<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Mark<o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> Dr. Mark Coeckelbergh<o:p></o:p> Department of Philosophy<o:p></o:p> University of Twente<o:p></o:p> P.O. Box 217<o:p></o:p> 7500 AE Enschede<o:p></o:p> The Netherlands<o:p></o:p> Phone +31 560 510 28<o:p></o:p> e-mail <a href="mailto:m.coeckelbergh@utwente.nl"> m.coeckelbergh@utwente.nl</a><o:p></o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <o:p> </o:p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"> From: discussion-bounces@lists.icts-and-society.net [mailto:discussion-bounces@lists.icts-and-society.net] On Behalf Of Andrew Feenberg Sent: donderdag 12 april 2012 18:46 To: Sean Cubitt Cc: discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net Subject: Re: [ICTs-and-Society] facebook and you<o:p></o:p> </div> </div> <o:p> </o:p> <div> That is a wonderful cartoon but as you point out it is not necessarily the best analogy. How about this one? In Vonnegut's The Sirens of Titan the immortal aliens traveling from one end of the universe to the other to deliver greetings to their distant counterparts get stuck in the solar system by a breakdown in one of their rockets. They are in no hurry (since they're immortal) and decide to set human history going on the off chance that one day humans will make an object that corresponds to the broken part. From their standpoint human history is mostly irrelevant. It only means a small metal object made by humans by accident to correspond with their needs. From the human standpoint of course human history has a lot of other complex meanings. Neither is "right," both are. This would be the relation between the data miners (aliens all) and the human users. Perhaps we should consider some other models of communication infrastructure as metaphors at least. For example, is the Internet a common carrier like the telephone in which a sharp separation between medium and message content is orchestrated by the technology? That would explain how it could be both experienced as a space of free communication by users and a money making proposition by owners of the infrastructure. Another model might be the sidewalk, a space where there is very little social control and no profitable enterprise, but which is essential to the profit making activities of businesses situated along it. I am not sure where this gets us but I feel that the ways in which money is made on the Internet today are quite strange by the standards of business history. This may be why it is hard to agree on a theory of the political economy of the Internet For a more commonplace model consider the French Minitel system which at its height connected 6 million terminals in homes throughout the country. The X.25 protocol was implemented so that every user's name was known, their time spent on each service was tracked, and they were charged by the minute on their phone bill with the revenue split between the phone company and the service provider. Now that's a business model! <o:p></o:p> <div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"> <hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" id="zwchr"> </div> <div> From: "Sean Cubitt" <sean.cubitt@unimelb.edu.au> To: "Erik Jentges" <e.jentges@ipmz.uzh.ch>, discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:40:55 AM Subject: Re: [ICTs-and-Society] facebook and you<o:p></o:p> <div> It is real life that is the zoo – Facebook is the myth that makes us believe we are only zoo animals when we choose to be<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color"> From: Erik Jentges <<a href="mailto:e.jentges@ipmz.uzh.ch" target="_blank">e.jentges@ipmz.uzh.ch</a>> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:16:43 +0200 To: <<a href="mailto:discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net" target="_blank">discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net</a>> Subject: [ICTs-and-Society] facebook and you<o:p></o:p> </div> <div> <o:p> </o:p> </div> <div> <div> Thanks to all for the inspiring discussions. <o:p></o:p> Sometimes a picture says more than a thousand words (some might know this):<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> Pig 1 : Isn’t it great ? We have to pay nothing for the barn.<o:p></o:p> Pig 2 : Yeah! and even the food is free.<o:p></o:p> Facebook and You<o:p></o:p> If you’re not paying for it, you’re not the customer. You’re the product being sold.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <a href="http://www.ethannonsequitur.com/facebook-you-customer-product-pigs.html/facebook-and-you-pigs" target="_blank"><img border="0" width="450" height="360" id="Grafik_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CD1961.24586F70" alt="Beschreibung: Facebook and You Pigs"></a><o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> After thinking a bit about this cartoon and the analogy drawn to facebook, some unexplainable sociological intuition rather gives me a hunch that users are not so much the product being sold (to whom?) but that facebook is some sort of a zoo, where all visitors are at the same time the animals on display. Those invited can create their own cages, curating and narrating their identities. This still leaves open who is the manager of the zoo (Zuckerberg and his corporation?) and if the zoo has a viable long term strategy. That remains to be seen.<o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> All the best at the conference, greetings,<o:p></o:p> Erik <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p> Dr. phil. Erik Jentges<o:p></o:p> IPMZ - Institut für Publizistikwissenschaft und Medienforschung<o:p></o:p> Universität Zürich<o:p></o:p> Andreasstrasse 15<o:p></o:p> CH-8050 Zürich<o:p></o:p> Tel. +41 (0)44 634 46 70 <o:p></o:p> Fax +41 (0)44 634 49 34<o:p></o:p> <a href="mailto:e.jentges@ipmz.uzh.ch" target="_blank">e.jentges@ipmz.uzh.ch</a><o:p></o:p> <a href="http://www.ipmz.unizh.ch/" target="_blank">MailScanner heeft een e-mail met mogelijk een poging tot fraude gevonden van "www.ipmz.unizh.ch" www.ipmz.uzh.ch</a> <o:p></o:p> <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net" target="_blank">Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net</a> <a href="http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net" target="_blank"> http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net</a> _______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list <a href="mailto:Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net">Discussion@lists.icts-and-society.net</a> <a href="http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net">http://lists.icts-and-society.net/listinfo.cgi/discussion-icts-and-society.net</a><o:p></o:p> </div> -- <o:p></o:p> <div> ______________________________ New Book: (Re)Inventing the Internet Preview at: <a href="https://www.sensepublishers.com/product_info.php?products_id=1396&osCsid">https://www.sensepublishers.com/product_info.php?products_id=1396&osCsid</a>= Andrew Feenberg Canada Research Chair in Philosophy of Technology School of Communication Simon Fraser University at Harbour Centre ACT, Room 3598 515 West Hastings Street Vancouver, British Columbia, V6B 5K3 Canada Office: 778-782-5169 Mobile: 604-218-6047 <a href="http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf">http://www.sfu.ca/~andrewf</a> <o:p></o:p> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html>